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Post by raba nethe on Mar 18, 2004 15:14:04 GMT -5
frodo doesnt die. he sails from the grey havens to valinor. i think anyone who goes there is immortal or something, or what would be the point of bilbo going?
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Post by Billysbaby on Mar 18, 2004 18:37:52 GMT -5
Yea maybe
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Post by Elanor on Mar 22, 2004 10:43:59 GMT -5
I think Valinor is meant to be like heaven - no one ever comes back ( apart from some one in the Silmarrilion - I think) Also it soulds very like what Gandalf says to Pippin about dying Esspecially if you listen to the song words from In to the West And doesn't Bilbo go because he is really old
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Post by Billysbaby on Mar 22, 2004 16:22:51 GMT -5
Maybe
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Tinuviel8834
Dunadan
reality sucks, give me fantasy
Posts: 109
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Post by Tinuviel8834 on Mar 26, 2004 18:32:57 GMT -5
HONESTLY-READ THE SILMARILLION PEOPLE!!!! AHHH!!!! it explains ALL ABOUT VALINOR, and it is basically where the valar, or gods n goddess like ainur of iluvatar, who was like the creator of middle earth, reside. they live there and offer the elves to sail to their shores whenever they feel weariness of the world and want rest...to forget evil. there they will stay until the end of time, so its kinda like heaven yar. its an immortal place, heaven-like, and can u understand why frodo goes now?! yar
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Post by Elanor on Mar 28, 2004 5:48:33 GMT -5
So I was right? yay!!!, sorry about that I have read the Silmarillion but I don't understand/ remember most of it. To me it felt more like a history book than a story.
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Post by Miremiel on Apr 9, 2004 17:47:39 GMT -5
if you also think about it.. Frodo, Gandalf and Bilbo's task is over. all three of them had something to do in ME (Middle Earth) but now they have done it. Their task is over...
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Post by EvenstarPrincess on Apr 10, 2004 10:48:34 GMT -5
Frodo doesnt die in RotK he sails away w/ the elves
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Post by Elanor on Apr 11, 2004 16:59:51 GMT -5
I'll just quote my earlier posts cause I'm too lazy to explain again And Oh and read what Tinuviel8834 says too.
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Post by Turin on Apr 11, 2004 18:48:50 GMT -5
it's a hard one to explain... and although Tinuivel has done a pretty good job her logic is a little flawed... i'll try to explain.
at the beginning Valinor was just another place... just like Middle earth it lay on the ocean. However after the betrayal of the Numenorians who tried to sail to Valinor seeking immortality, despite a ban on said action by none other than the Valar themselves, Eru (god of the world) made the world round and cast Valinor high above, far from the reach of mortal men. Although, Elves, who were not banned from seeking Valinor could still sail the 'straight road' and find Valinor.
Yes u could say Valinor is like a heaven but only because it isn't marred or spoilt by the dark powers, however the dead do not go there... they go to the Halls of Mandos (located on Valinor).
the primary flaw of Tinuivel's logic is that Frodo and Bilbo become immortal when they go to Valinor... this isn't true... even upon arrival at Valinor they are still mortal and would die in time. the only reason Valinor is known as the undying land is because only the immortal abide there, save by exception from the Vala themselves. HOWEVER... i think the Vala has the power to grant immortality to Frodo and Bilbo is they do so please... but i ain't too sure about that one.
I hope this has cleared up a few things for everyone.
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Post by ElwoodLover on Apr 12, 2004 2:20:10 GMT -5
well done Turin!! that was very well explained! i don't think i could have done it as well as you did...because its been a *long* time since i read the silmarillion
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Post by Miremiel on Apr 12, 2004 12:58:23 GMT -5
that was a very good explaination! And I think you're right with the thing, that the Valar would be able to give Frodo and Bilbo immortality! But well.. not all done with the Sil yet.. so.. But of what I've read I would think they could..
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Post by EvenstarPrincess on Apr 12, 2004 13:40:45 GMT -5
Frodo doesn't die in RotK!!!
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Post by Miremiel on Apr 12, 2004 14:27:20 GMT -5
no he doesn't..
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Post by Elijahlover on Apr 12, 2004 14:44:42 GMT -5
ummm guys...this actually TEXThas cleared up some confusion on this topic...umm i guess i get it now....hey ElWoodlover! we have like the same name! haha lol we should talk more often!
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