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Post by aragornspal on Jan 5, 2005 18:25:41 GMT -5
TEXT
Denthor...
What comes to your mind when you think of him?
I think hes totally unfit to rule Gonder and he should accept both his sons, not play favorites because Boromir is better and likes war while Faramir is compassonite and and philosohiful. Whats your opinion of him?
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Post by Raivynn on Jan 5, 2005 21:20:28 GMT -5
Denethor in the movies bears very little resemblence to the book Denethor. Was he cruel and a little cold hearted to Faramir? Yes, but what the movie doesn't show is how badly his mind crumbled after the use of the palantir. Thus making him appear as if he was evil.
He was a broken man, his wife died and he's left with a living image of her in Faramir. There's way more to Denethor than just this mad old guy that was cruel to one of his sons.
He's a very complex and misunderstood character.
Do I think he was fit to rule Gondor as Steward. Yes he would have been in his prime. But due to outside forces he could not control his sanity began to crumble and he made rash and ill informed judgements.
There's also a great Denethor thread you can debate on in the book section.
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Post by Nienor on Jan 6, 2005 6:34:42 GMT -5
Denethor in the movies bears very little resemblence to the book Denethor. Was he cruel and a little cold hearted to Faramir? Yes, but what the movie doesn't show is how badly his mind crumbled after the use of the palantir. Thus making him appear as if he was evil.
He was a broken man, his wife died and he's left with a living image of her in Faramir. There's way more to Denethor than just this mad old guy that was cruel to one of his sons.
He's a very complex and misunderstood character.
Do I think he was fit to rule Gondor as Steward. Yes he would have been in his prime. But due to outside forces he could not control his sanity began to crumble and he made rash and ill informed judgements.
There's also a great Denethor thread you can debate on in the book section. Hear hear! *claps* |
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Post by Raivynn on Jan 6, 2005 8:06:05 GMT -5
*takes a bow*
Aawww shucks.
Well I got a lovely pm from Aragornspal, saying how my words made them think about Denethor in a more understanding light.
I'm actually a bit stunned by it. But thanks Aragorns pal, your pm really was lovely. And if something lil ole me said made you think. Then I'm glad to have done that, stunned but happy.
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Post by Frôdô Bâggîns on Jan 6, 2005 8:30:12 GMT -5
I think that Denethor is very evil man,,,, He doesnt tread Faramir in a way a parent should tread his child. Poor Faramir isnt loved by his father...  |
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Post by Raivynn on Jan 6, 2005 8:54:17 GMT -5
Denethor was not evil. Denethor was manipulated by Sauron, who exploited his weaknessess and took any thought of hope from his mind. The death of his wife Finduilas took a lot of his love and compassion from him. Part him died inside. I'm not condoning any of his actions towards Faramir. They were reprehensible. But he was not himself. I honestly think if things were different, if he hadn't gotten pulled into the depths of despair by Sauron, he would be a very different person.
Perhaps still a very proud and arrogant man.But not quite the man you see in the movies(or the books).
The movie Denethor was misrepresented, by not showing him or making reference to his constant useage of the Palantir. He just looked like this intentionally cruel, heartless and vile man. When in truth he was filled with hopelessness, grief and despair.
Sorry for the rant.
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Post by Frodo Baggins on Jan 6, 2005 8:58:41 GMT -5
Yes, you're right. If it was not for him using the palantir he would never have been manipulated and been made weaker by Sauron, and would most likely be a good father. It is just the movies being horrible not showing the true story but make it appear as it is only hate Denethor feels towards Faramir, and people think it is that way in the books too. Shame on Peter Jackson>  |
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Post by Raivynn on Jan 6, 2005 9:05:04 GMT -5
I wouldn't say I was disappointed, as PJ did what he thought was best for the movie telling of the story. But I was disheartened as Denethor is one of my favourite characters in the whole book. Complex characters are a real passion of mine.So when I see "Denethor is evil" and it's like a red rag to a bull.
Some characters you have to scratch the surface to see what lies underneath.
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Post by aragornspal on Jan 6, 2005 10:02:34 GMT -5
I totally agree on that one. I think PJ should have spent more time lettng you get to know the chacters, like find out a little about thier past. Now that would be really neat. Especially Denethor. You could find out what type of man he really was before his wife died , maybe he was civil to Faramir...  |
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Post by Nienor on Jan 6, 2005 20:55:10 GMT -5
*claps for Frodo and Eadwyn* Hear hear! (sorry, you've said everything I would say!  ) |
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Post by Lady Orohisiel Rainyaviel on Jan 7, 2005 8:04:58 GMT -5
Good words, Eadwyn and Frodo . I look on it and think, how would I feel if I was in Denethor's posistion. He sees Finduilas in Faramir, and also, didn't she die giving birth to Faramir? Or shortly afterwards? Then he may blame Faramir for her death. And also, I don't like in the film the way they portray him as being an old lunatic. It needs explaining that he is only mad because he has been looking in the palantir. That is something in the film that I didn't like, and was even more annoyed that it wasn't even in the EE  |
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Post by vikingmaiden on Jan 7, 2005 14:38:05 GMT -5
yeah, the film portrayed him quite differently than i imagined in the books. i don't consider him my favourite character, but he certainly is intriguing. however, i still think he had some major faults in his character, even in the books. i wouldn't consider him "not evil". he's a complex character, so you can't really give a clear answer about him. even still, that doesn't keep me from feeling sorry for him. he had such a tragic end, that you can't really be so harsh on him.
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Post by Nienor on Jan 8, 2005 7:27:33 GMT -5
I believe it was just a rumor, about her dying in childbirth. Could be wrong though!
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Post by Raivynn on Jan 8, 2005 11:25:24 GMT -5
I checked up Encyclopedia of Arda, and I worked out the dates of Faramirs birth and he would have been about 5 I think. I'm not the greatest mathemetician. So I could be off the mark.
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Post by oceansun on Jan 8, 2005 11:57:00 GMT -5
Denethor in the movies bears very little resemblence to the book Denethor. Was he cruel and a little cold hearted to Faramir? Yes, but what the movie doesn't show is how badly his mind crumbled after the use of the palantir. Thus making him appear as if he was evil.
He was a broken man, his wife died and he's left with a living image of her in Faramir. There's way more to Denethor than just this mad old guy that was cruel to one of his sons.
He's a very complex and misunderstood character.
Do I think he was fit to rule Gondor as Steward. Yes he would have been in his prime. But due to outside forces he could not control his sanity began to crumble and he made rash and ill informed judgements.
There's also a great Denethor thread you can debate on in the book section. huzzah..  |
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