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Post by † Rumil † on Jan 22, 2005 7:37:57 GMT -5
"A Túrin Turambar turún' ambartanen: master of doom by doom mastered"
This is one of my favourite tales in the Silmarillion, if not my favourite.
Someone asked me to clarify this for them, and also, I'd like to get a discussion going.
The most tragic of Tolkien's heroes, Turin was a man to be feared. Son of Húrin Thalion and cousin to Tuor, petrifyed the servants of Morgoth. One of his most noted act, is slaying Glaurung, Father of Dragons. Morgoth's curse and resentment were on Turin, and he was constantly being pursued by sorts of evils. Blinded to his sister, he met her in the forest of Brethil, and not knowing who she was fell in love with her. The two wed. Nienor shortly later discovered her brother was actually her husband, she threw herself to her death. Turin, was so dismayed he fell on his own sword.
Discussion? Discussion?
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Post by Messenger Of Mordor on Jan 22, 2005 13:07:13 GMT -5
I'm rereading the Silm and just got finished with this chapter.
Its so sad. I feel so bad for Turin. And yet mad at him for his actions. But I don't think they could be helped because of the doom on him. Quiet similar to the doom on the Noldor. It was going to reach him no matter what he did. Just like the doom on the Noldor would reach them one day.
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Post by Lady Orohisiel Rainyaviel on Jan 23, 2005 17:20:03 GMT -5
I don't think I've ever be moved so much by a story was I was by the story of Turin. With Beren and Luthien I had tears in my eyes but when I finished this I felt...I don't know how to describe it, I just lay there thinking 'wow'. It is one of the greatest tradgedies ever written I think.
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Post by Nienor on Jan 23, 2005 18:48:43 GMT -5
It's an incredible story. The fact that Turin kept going, after terrible things happened to him, is amazing. The entire lives of him and his family seem to be tragic...I admire his father, Hurin, a lot. His mother was very strong. And his sister was brave. Great story.
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Post by RavenLady on Jan 24, 2005 3:49:52 GMT -5
I blame the fall of Nargothrond partly on Turin's pride and rashness (that and Orodreth's spinelessness, not a good combination) but most of the things that happened to him were out of his control.
I like his parents and sister, too. All amazingly strong people. I kind of like Sador, Hurin's servant from Unfinished Tales. He had certainly had some memorable things to say.
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Post by Arsarniel on Jan 26, 2005 19:46:26 GMT -5
Well, when I first read it, my reaction wasn't sadness, it was anger towards Morgoth, for doing something so horrible to such a noble family. Man oh man, if I could get my fingers around his throat.... Ahem. How Morgoth made Húrin sit on his (Morgoth's) throne, and be forced to see his family's ruin... It's like one of those nightmares where you can't turn your head away or move, and you're forced to stare at something terrifying or ugly... I wonder if Tolkien had dreams like that, and so that's what he based Húrin's torture on?
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Post by † Rumil † on Feb 15, 2005 20:29:24 GMT -5
Tolkien was in a war, and probably saw his friends die around him. Maybe that's where it's drawn from.
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Post by Turin on Feb 15, 2005 21:17:03 GMT -5
*feel I should offer some opinion into this story*
As you guys can probably tell, I LOVE the tale of Túrin.
Lady Orohisiel Rainyaviel put it well, with Berenand Luthien, the classic love story etc, u do feel sad and such but the Túrin tale is so much deeper. I think almost everyone here, that i've spoken to, in thier short lives, can relate to Túrin tragic struggle with self-identity and resentment. How he fell so hard from grace in Doraith and how his abashed pride led single handedly to the downfall of one of the great remaining nations of resistance... How he had to live with the death of his best friend on his hands. How he commited the ultimate sin by wedding his sister. How he turned to being an outlaw.
All these things... all these dreadful things... you should hate them but you can't help but understand them. Because you understand Túrin, what he's going through and how difficult it is.
I feel most importantly is the end... the sense of pride and hope you get from his redemption and ultimately his death. Even slaying himself kinda makes you feel a sense of hope in life... it's difficult to explain.
The defeat of Glaurung was truly the ultimate Metaphor for his life and the eventual beating of it.
well at least that's my opinion... feel free to blast it to high heavens!
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Post by RavenLady on Mar 1, 2005 2:52:31 GMT -5
I've been trying to think of something new to add to this thread . . . how's this:
Why did Turin push Nargothrond torward open war? It's always puzzled me.
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Post by Arien Elensar on Mar 1, 2005 3:10:35 GMT -5
I'm not surprised he fell in love with her. Since she was his sister they had a connection and not knowing they evidentally took it for love. They are not to blame at all. Stupid curse! Indeed it is a very deep and moving tale. One of Tolkiens more serious touches.
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Post by Vinyariel on Mar 9, 2005 6:56:59 GMT -5
I love the story of Turin because of the tragic. Its like in the big old greek dramas or in some of Shakespeares plays. The dead of Beleg is really beautifull "mean", rescuing Turin to get slawn by his own sword through the hand of the one he wanted to rescue. And then everything surround Glaurung. He is such a wonderfull evil creature!
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Post by Turin on Mar 14, 2005 14:00:35 GMT -5
I think it was all about vengance and pride that led Túrin into forcing Nargothrond into open war...
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Post by Lady Undomiel on Mar 20, 2005 17:27:04 GMT -5
Yes the story of Hurin's chidren is my favourite but I love also the story of Beren and Luthien. But I really am crying everytime when I finish reading about Turin and maybe that's why I like it best... because it's so sad and touching ...
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Post by Arien Elensar on Mar 20, 2005 19:31:09 GMT -5
It really makes you feel for everythign they went througha nd all the lies.
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Post by Herenya on Apr 3, 2005 6:27:33 GMT -5
I find the tale of Turin rather painful. I think when I've reread the Silmarillion, I've skipped over it because it's like I can't bear to read it. (I've reread the Unfinished Tales version, though.)
The whole family go through so...much. So much grief and heartache and see so much war and yet... the keep on going on. Hurin's fate really gets to me - how he seen so much that he can't go back to even a vague semblance of a life once Morgoth set him free. He is still being taunted - he is only freed when there is nothing he can really do with his freedom.
I agree it's a really deep story!
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