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Post by Valaraukar on Aug 18, 2004 21:37:39 GMT -5
Mwuhahahahaha, Tolkien wanted to give gandalf POWER mwuhahahahaha.......hehe...yes i know i am being idiotic....its late..
Uhh, im gonna crawl back into the dark hole i came from now...
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SilviaBloom
Hobbit
man erin nin esse Tawariell is elvish for Good day My name is Silvia
Posts: 7
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Post by SilviaBloom on Aug 30, 2004 20:43:50 GMT -5
White is like an upgrade from Gray wister faster and more powerful.
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Estella
Dunadan
And as for our star... Miss Christine Daae....
Posts: 151
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Post by Estella on Sept 6, 2004 19:13:38 GMT -5
I think it's funny how everyone likes Gandalf the Grey better than Gandalf the White, because in the books, Merry and Pippin seem to like Gandalf the White better. They say that he answers more of their questions, etc.
But yeah, I think that after Gandalf the Grey sorta died from his fight with the Balrog, the Valar/Eru (I'm not sure who it was...) sent him back with stronger powers -- the powers that were probably originally granted to Saruman -- because his task (which was to guide the free peoples of Middle-earth in their struggle to defeat Sauron) was not yet finished.
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Post by Charanifin on Nov 30, 2004 11:08:21 GMT -5
Ok I'm going to try to clear a few things here. Gandalf’s real name was Olórin, Saruman was Curumo. Olórin didn’t want to go to Middle-Earth.
Manwë summoned the Valar for a council [ Maybe he had asked Eru for counsel ] at which it was resolved to send out three emissaries to Middle-Earth and he asked who would go. They would have to lose might and clothe themselves in flesh to win the trust of Elves and Men but this would also imperil them, diminish their wisdom and knowledge and bring upon them fear, the care and weariness of the flesh. Only two came forward; Curumo [ Saruman ] and Alatar. Curumo was chosen by Aulë among "his" Maiar and Alatar was send by Oromë. Manwë asked where Olórin [Gandalf] was and Olórin just returned from a journey and coming to the meeting asked what he wanted from him and Manwë told that he wished him to go as the third to Middle-Earth. Olórin answered that he meant himself to weak for such a task and that he feared Sauron. Then Manwë said that that was all the more reason why he should go and he commanded him to go as the third. There Varda broke in and said "Not as the third". And Curumo remembered that.
The whole power thing was started before they even left and it’s possible that Curumo [ Saruman ] was partly corrupted before he left Valinor by Morgoth in the first age. The tale ends with the statement that, Curumo was obliged to take Aiwendil [ Radagast ] with him to please Yavanna, Aulë`s wife and that Alatar took Pallando as a friend. The relations between the Istari to the Valar are : Curumo to Aulë, Olórin to Manwë and Varda, Aiwendil to Yavanna and Alatar + Pallando to Oromë. This might also explain why Alatar and Pallando the Blue Wizards passed into the East. In the youth of Middle-Earth Oromë often traveled and hunted in those regions and therefore "His" people might have had a better knowledge of those lands. It might also explain why Saruman did not like Radagast; he was imposed to him and not taken by free will and also explain his rather unfriendly feelings towards Gandalf because he heard Varda´s words and saw the mightiest Valar choose Gandalf. in fact ordered him to go because he was badly needed. Alatar and Pallando (also known the Blue Wizards )went into the east and were never mentioned in other tales, although Tolkien alluded to the fact that they might have been doing some special mission there or that they may have been corrupted there.
Neither Gandalf nor Saruman was picked to be the head of the order of the Wizards, ( or The Istari) I can’t remember exactly right now, but there was a council with the Elves and The Istari when they first came to M-E and it said that Galadriel wanted Gandalf to be the head of the order, but he did not
Another note by J.R.R.T, written same year or later because it arose from his considerations of the above mentioned text about Glorfindel, named "Note on the landing of the Wizards and their functions and operations" In this text [ Not published in the UT but mentioned by C.T as nearly unreadable ] J.R.R.T says that the three wizards Saruman, Gandalf and Radagast came at the same time but Saruman came alone whereas Gandalf and Radagast came together and then :"The other two , [ the Blue Wizards ] came much earlier, at the same time probably as Glorfindel when matters became very dangerous in the Second age". Same note and exact quoting with missing words "But the other two Istari were sent for a different purpose. Morinethar and Rómestámo ( Darkness-slayer and East-helper ) Their task was to circumvent Sauron : to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled from Melkor-worship, to stir up rebellion... and after his first fall to search out his hiding ( in which they failed ) and to cause ( ? dissension and disarray ) among the dark East… They must have had very great influence on the history of the Second age and Third age in weakening and disarraying the forces of East… who would both in the Second age and Third age otherwise have… outnumbered the West."
So anyway Gandalf was always the better and replace Saruman when the time had come. He didn’t exactly become more powerful as in abilities but authority. He also had the ring of Narya given to him by Cirdan who thought Gandalf might have better use of it in his quest than himself.
To sum up, it wasn’t all just about power.
Coolest thing is that Glorfindel came back from Valinor to Middle-Erath after dieing in the first age fighting a Balrog.
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Post by Charanifin on Nov 30, 2004 14:29:21 GMT -5
If anyone want's more info try to look for the book of 'Unfinished Tales' by J.R.R. Tolkien, and read the chapter, "The Istari". It's[glow=red,2,300] Awesome[/glow]stuff. ;D
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Post by Evenstar on Dec 13, 2004 10:57:56 GMT -5
Yes Exactly what ~*~ôEoWyNô~*~ Has said, thats why gandalf turned white.
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Post by Radagast on Dec 21, 2004 20:43:15 GMT -5
I guess that thats a question that well need to look that up!
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Post by Lady Undomiel on Mar 20, 2005 16:54:33 GMT -5
You know if you've the TTT EE you can follow Gandalf's journey form Khazad-Dum to the Fangorn Forset but if you haven't got it... well, watch the official version of TTT - when Gandalf says 'Through fire and water. From the lowest dungeon to the highest peak, I fought him, the Balrog of Morgoth. Until at last, I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin upon the mountainside. Darkness took me. And I strayed out of thought and time. Stars wheeled overhead and each day was as long as a life age of the earth. But it was not the end. I felt life in me again. I've been sent back until my task is done.' and try to understand it... if you can't please email me because I can't explaining so much time something that you've already found the answers, am I right or not?
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Post by Arien Elensar on Mar 20, 2005 18:42:04 GMT -5
good idea Lady Undomiel. I would also like to know what you think though I think I already got it.
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Post by Lady Undomiel on Mar 22, 2005 10:45:17 GMT -5
I'm glad so, Arien ! But really it's a little difficult to explain espacially on English...
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Post by Arien Elensar on Mar 22, 2005 15:11:08 GMT -5
I know how that feels. sometiems you jsut can't put thought into words. What language do you speak?
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Post by Lady Undomiel on Apr 5, 2005 11:56:39 GMT -5
I'm from Bulgaria and I speak Bulgarian. I also learn French (but my English is better) and I can speak Quenya and Sindarin quite well. How about you, Arien?
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Post by Arien Elensar on Apr 8, 2005 18:05:35 GMT -5
You can speak Quenya and Sindarin! WOW! I only know some words and phrases. I live in California but my parents are from India. We speak Punjabi, we're Sikhs.
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Post by Lady Undomiel on Apr 12, 2005 9:09:05 GMT -5
Nice - India!! Yes I'm kind of Tolkien's languages maniac (well I'm a Tolkien maniac) and I started learning Quenya from a very nice Bulgarian site a year ago then I continued with Sindarin but I'm still not very good with Tengwar and I can't write very well... The accent I learned from prof. Tolkien (I've got some elvish parts from the books read by Tolkien himself)...
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