Post by RavenLady on Apr 15, 2005 15:10:49 GMT -5
Looks like the Glorfindel thread has turned into a "halls of Mandos" thread. Well, I sort of started it, but I can't resist.
That's not quite right. From The Silmarillion Ch. 12, "Of Men":
". . . dying they are gathered to the halls of Mandos in Valinor, whence they may in time return."
Emphasis on "may." Not all of them return. And we do have the example of Feanor, whose "likeness has never again appeared in Arda, neither has his spirit left the Halls of Mandos."
Also, there's something on this in History of Middle-earth 10: Morgoth's Ring -- in "Laws and Customs Among the Eldar." (I get to share this with you all because the lovely Silmfics Yahoo group has it in the files for nerds like me who want to sort these things out. I have read Morgoth's Ring, actually, offline, but don't have it with me.)
Re-birth is not the only fate of the houseless fear. The Shadow upon Arda caused not only misfortune and injury to the body. It could corrupt the mind; and those among the Eldar who were darkened in spirit did unnatural deeds, and were capable of hatred and malice. Not all who died suffered innocently. Moreover, some fear in grief or weariness gave up hope, and turning away from life relinquished their bodies, even though these might have been healed or were indeed unhurt. Few of these latter desired to be re-born, not at least until they had been long in 'waiting'; some never returned. Of the others, the wrong-doers, many were held long in 'waiting', and some were not permitted to take up their lives again.
For there was, for all the fear of the Dead, a time of Waiting, in which, howsoever they had died, they were corrected, instructed, strengthened, or comforted, according to their needs or deserts. If they would consent to this. But the fea in its nakedness is obdurate, and remains long in the bondage of its memory and old purposes (especially if these were evil). Those who were healed could be re-born, if they desired it: none are re-born or sent back into life unwilling.
All elves, after they die, are eventually reborn into Valinor but maybe they didn't want to return, but it is a long time before they are reborn.
That's not quite right. From The Silmarillion Ch. 12, "Of Men":
". . . dying they are gathered to the halls of Mandos in Valinor, whence they may in time return."
Emphasis on "may." Not all of them return. And we do have the example of Feanor, whose "likeness has never again appeared in Arda, neither has his spirit left the Halls of Mandos."
Also, there's something on this in History of Middle-earth 10: Morgoth's Ring -- in "Laws and Customs Among the Eldar." (I get to share this with you all because the lovely Silmfics Yahoo group has it in the files for nerds like me who want to sort these things out. I have read Morgoth's Ring, actually, offline, but don't have it with me.)
Re-birth is not the only fate of the houseless fear. The Shadow upon Arda caused not only misfortune and injury to the body. It could corrupt the mind; and those among the Eldar who were darkened in spirit did unnatural deeds, and were capable of hatred and malice. Not all who died suffered innocently. Moreover, some fear in grief or weariness gave up hope, and turning away from life relinquished their bodies, even though these might have been healed or were indeed unhurt. Few of these latter desired to be re-born, not at least until they had been long in 'waiting'; some never returned. Of the others, the wrong-doers, many were held long in 'waiting', and some were not permitted to take up their lives again.
For there was, for all the fear of the Dead, a time of Waiting, in which, howsoever they had died, they were corrected, instructed, strengthened, or comforted, according to their needs or deserts. If they would consent to this. But the fea in its nakedness is obdurate, and remains long in the bondage of its memory and old purposes (especially if these were evil). Those who were healed could be re-born, if they desired it: none are re-born or sent back into life unwilling.