ByMyself
Dunadan
" I am by myself... never mind I have Dom"
Posts: 180
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Gandalf
Apr 28, 2005 19:54:31 GMT -5
Post by ByMyself on Apr 28, 2005 19:54:31 GMT -5
Is Gandalf immortal? WAs he created old or did he age like a regular person( Kind of like Aragorn) This has been bothering me
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Gandalf
Apr 28, 2005 20:18:16 GMT -5
Post by Arien Elensar on Apr 28, 2005 20:18:16 GMT -5
Wizards: - Five wizards were sent to Middle-earth to serve as advisors to oppose evil. - A wizard's appearance resembles that of an old man, although they age slowly and are actually physically vigorous. - Wizards possess great powers of body and mind. - They use staffs as a means to conduct their power and will. - Each Wizard has his own color and grade. White being the highest in their order and Grey the next level in power and wisdom. - Wizards are forbidden to dominate those in Middle-earth and match Sauron's power.
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Gandalf
Apr 29, 2005 8:03:22 GMT -5
Post by Lady Undomiel on Apr 29, 2005 8:03:22 GMT -5
Actually the wizards were Maia, so they're really immortal but they chose to live like mortals (being hurt, feel cold, hunger, etc.) because after all they were sent by the Vala to protect Middle-Earth, so they had to become a part from it (you should read 'Unfinished Tales' - there's many more about the Isari in it, not only for Gandalf and Saruman but for the others too).
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Gandalf
Apr 29, 2005 13:12:24 GMT -5
Post by Arien Elensar on Apr 29, 2005 13:12:24 GMT -5
I vaguely knew about that. I didn't know they choose to be live mortals. Probably because I haven't read the Unfinished Tales. Thanks!
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ByMyself
Dunadan
" I am by myself... never mind I have Dom"
Posts: 180
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Gandalf
Apr 29, 2005 13:58:17 GMT -5
Post by ByMyself on Apr 29, 2005 13:58:17 GMT -5
Thanks
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Gandalf
Apr 29, 2005 14:12:02 GMT -5
Post by Arien Elensar on Apr 29, 2005 14:12:02 GMT -5
No prob! Actually Lady Undomiel deserves most of the credit.
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Gandalf
Apr 30, 2005 6:03:45 GMT -5
Post by Alessae on Apr 30, 2005 6:03:45 GMT -5
That's interesting! I never asked myself that question until you just did now. Thanks for asnwering it both of you
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Gandalf
Apr 30, 2005 13:02:38 GMT -5
Post by ea on Apr 30, 2005 13:02:38 GMT -5
Very nice explanations everyone. I'd like to add just a detail. The istari being maiar (maiar is plural form, right?) had great powers from Ilúvatar but as had been pointed out they submitted themselves to the conditions of Middle-earth. A part of the deal was to conceal their powers and only use them for the good, and that was the part of the job description that Saruman didn't read. He was corrupted by his powers and therefore Gandalf (who stayed pure very clearly stated in his shining new garments) was able to overthrow him. The maiar are immortal spirits meaning they can not die. Sauron too is maia which explains why he keeps coming back to haunt Middle-earth during history (the Sil.).
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Gandalf
Apr 30, 2005 15:11:06 GMT -5
Post by Myra on Apr 30, 2005 15:11:06 GMT -5
^I thought about that too....I mean Sauron....the ring is destroyed, but Sauron can't be destroyed....so where does he go to? To the same hall where morgoth was jailed once? I mean....the world can still be threatened by him..... (sorry if my questions are stupid )
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Post by Arien Elensar on May 2, 2005 3:24:35 GMT -5
So let me get this straight. They are immortal but choose to live like mortals in Middle-earth and feel all the pain and stuff? Okay, so that clears up that question.
No, it's not stupid, I also wonder what happened to Sauron? Did he just get destroyed now that the One Ring is destroyed?
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Post by ea on May 2, 2005 5:21:16 GMT -5
Hmm... well, good question.... let me try... The maiar (being lesser Ainur) cannot be destroyed, only their physical form can as has happened to Sauron two or three times now (last time when the One Ring was destroyed). It says in the Sil. that the spirit of Sauron returned to Mordor when he was defeated in Númenor and that no living creature would go near that land or something like that. Now Sauron is a servant of Melkor so I guess that his power and might must be connected to Melkor, as when Melkor rises he can 'feed' power to his servants. So Saurons evil spirit will just go somewhere to hide and dwell until he is strong enough to take physical form again. And no, no questions are stupid Tolkiens universe is so detailed and complex that ordinary mortals can't keep up with everything, that's what forums are for....!! EDIT: Oh, and by the way, you might wanna read the entry on Sauron on Encyclopedia of Arda, it has quotes from the Sil and info on his background (though it doesn't refer directly to this discussion): www.glyphweb.com/arda/
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Gandalf
May 2, 2005 15:00:33 GMT -5
Post by Myra on May 2, 2005 15:00:33 GMT -5
Well I've read the sil. And aye, I guess yer right that he's bound to melkor. And the thingy with the loss of the physical stuff is clear since sauron has not regained his physical appearance in LotR, he just wanted to as soon as he got the ring. But theoretically, because he's a maia, his spirit cannot be destroyed, but I think it can be sent to the halls of Mandos? On the other hand, Tolkien might have left it open in the sense that the evil is still lurking somewhere (obviously) in this world. It's just waiting for the proper possibility to break out again....do you remember the time after Feanor's death, where the eldar settled down in ME, hundreds of years passed until melkor dared a new attack again... Just a thought.... But actually it's a pity that the evil can't be destroyed in a final way:-/ So Frodo's effort was/is effective for a certain time only...
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Gandalf
May 2, 2005 15:41:27 GMT -5
Post by ea on May 2, 2005 15:41:27 GMT -5
But actually it's a pity that the evil can't be destroyed in a final way:-/ So Frodo's effort was/is effective for a certain time only... Yes, it is a pity but that's the facts of life. Evil does exist along with the good, if there wasn't any evil we wouldn't know and appreciate the good in life... *rambles on with a long boring speech on balance in the world and the two powers of light and dark fighting for eternity* And I think you're right, Tolkien left it open, evil is lurking and we gotta keep an eye open....and after all Middle-earth would be a less intriguing place without Morgoth...
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Gandalf
May 2, 2005 17:04:08 GMT -5
Post by Arien Elensar on May 2, 2005 17:04:08 GMT -5
I also think he could be bound to Melkor. But his servants have now lost their power so I wonder what's next.
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Post by Lady Undomiel on May 3, 2005 7:24:50 GMT -5
So let me get this straight. They are immortal but choose to live like mortals in Middle-earth and feel all the pain and stuff? Okay, so that clears up that question. No, it's not stupid, I also wonder what happened to Sauron? Did he just get destroyed now that the One Ring is destroyed? Yes Airen, you should read 'Unfinished Tales' there's more about all the wizards and about their arriving in Middle-Earth. And about Sauron, well when he forged the Ring he basicly putted all his evil spirit and power in it, so when the Ring was removed from his hand by Isildur he lost most of his power even his body. 2500 years later when he has the power to rule Middle-Earh, he needed only the One Ring to do it, because if it could have the Ring there'd be nobody to stop him (remeber Galadriel from the prologue in FOTR -- 'but the power of the ring could not be undone...') and that's why there were so many people who wanted the Ring, they though they'd become strong and rule the world if they had the ring, even Sam though that in ROTK (book if you remeber). And so when the ring was destroyed in the fire, Sauron also was in fire and was destroyed forever...
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