The Women of Middle-earth and relegious symbolizme

[Arien Elensar]

This is an awesome site. It looks at the characters in detail and ties them to the christian religion. It's all women. Galadriel, Elbereth, Eowyn, Luthien, Arwen. I'm not christian but I found it really fascinating. Please check it out:

www.mythictruth.com/MainPages/Foreword.htm

That bar on the left, the seond to last thing will say Women of Middle-earth. Click on that and you are there.

[vikingmaiden]

that is an amazing site!!!! oh, i love it, i'm putting it on my favourites list!!!! i'm glad also that they made a point that catholics do not worship the virgin mary. that's such a misunderstanding amongst christians today. very interesting find, arien elensar!

[Arien Elensar]

Thanks! i love how they go into detail about Galadriel like why she wears white or bears the ring Nenya or her gift giving. It's really cool.

[Lady Undomiel]

Wow this site is cool, I mean it's so different from the LOTR sites I've seen, I like how the webmaster thinks about the LOTR women...

[Arien Elensar]

Yeah. He really goes into detail about them.

[Herenya]

Wow, that's really interesting! (I wish I didn't have a headsch - I might have read it all...)

[Arien Elensar]

I hope you feel better and read later because it's a agreat read.

[Lady Undomiel]

Yes it is, I needed to read few times and understand it...

[Arien Elensar]

I've read all of Galadriel. Eowyn, and parts of Arwen and Luthien. Oh and I read basically all of Elbereth.

[Nienor]

Hmm. I really don't like it when people avidly compare Tolkien's work to Christianity and Catholicism. He stated very explicitly that he disliked allegory. And I know there was a page about that on the site, but I disagree with what it said.
A story, to be believable, must contain certain elements of truth, and many of these are held in Tolkien's beliefs. Therefore, when he attempted to write something that was very realistic, those important facets of truth came forward and are evident. It wasn't intentional. If I decided to write a story, a realistic and believable story, I would undoubtedly include what I considered to be right and true in it. I would give lying and stealing a negative connotation, and honesty and thoughtfulness a positive connotation. For each person, truth is not relative, and those truths that they base their lives on will be prevalent in the tale.
I am a Protestant Christian; I simply disagree with the statements made on that web site.

I just found a few more examples...
"This is in-line with the Immaculate Conception of Mary [Immaculate means unstained]. In fact the whole vision of Lothlórien and Galadriel is almost like a beatific vision of the Immaculate World to come."
That depends on how you look at it. You can compare it to anything, depending on what you believe and hold important. Like in an experiment, there is a constant: Galadriel and Lorien are beautiful. Yes. I agree with that. The variable are the ways in which it could be compared. I could compare it to anything, depending on my thoughts.

"He is referring to the three strands of her hair she bequeathed to him. Her beauty, understanding and gentleness helps in his conversion and reconciliation with the Elves as a whole. This aspect of Galadriel is very Marian. Many of the great Saints of the Church have written of such encounters with the Blessed Virgin Mary."
This paragraph really struck me. If you are actively looking for a comparison, yes, you might find this one. But think of it this way. In other Christian beliefs, I would find Jesus also applicable in this situation. In other beliefs, Mother Nature might be compared. At this point I'm not trying to promote a particular religion. I'm simply trying to show that it completely depends on what you are looking for.

"She is misunderstood by the outside world and is referred to as the, " Sorceress of the Golden Wood " by Boromir and Eomer; and also the, " Mistress of Magic " by Faramir; which is similar to the perception in today's world towards Mary, especially by certain Christian groups that erroneously think that Catholics worship Mary and they consider praying to her as sorcery or occultism. [LotR p.422 & p.652]."
Hmm. That's an interesting statement..I had to think about it a bit. Yes, I can see that this could be considered applicable. But I will go no further, seeing as I would probably be considered one of those who misunderstand Catholic beliefs. If any Catholic would like to PM me to discuss it, I'd love to!

"Another interesting parallel is that of the Elven Cloaks that Galadriel also gifts to the entire Fellowship. In 495 A.D. England, Mary appeared in an apparition to Saint Simon Stock on Mt Carmel and gave to him a 'scapular' made by her and her angels. The scapular is basically a cloth that is worn [around the neck] as a sign of consecration to Our Lord or Our Lady. There are many different types of scapulars in existence throughout the Church, but this one is the most well known and particular as it was woven and given by Mary herself."
Ahh. Yet again, a comparison that is controlled by personal beliefs. Again, I am a Christian, but that isn't a comparison I would see.

[Arien Elensar]

I'm not a Christian so I wouldn't know. I haven't read anything else on that site except for the part about Middle-earth women. I find nothing wrong with that. Yes, Tolkien did do it unintentionally but now someone os pointing those things out jsut for reference so I find okay. But like I said, I think you are refering to the rest of the site. Am I right?

[Nienor]

Actually, no...the section that I disliked the most was the section on women.
You have to understand that I'm not bashing anyone's opinion..it's fine, of course, if you like it! I'm just stating why I don't.

[Arien Elensar]

It's nice but I do think they are trying to compare them to Mary too much.

[Herenya]

I don't think there is a problem with parallels. And Tolkien did say it was "applicable". I think the difference is that the website is focusing purely on catholicism, in which, while it's untimately the same as christianity, they do place a lot more emphasis on Mary.

The interest in the website (for me) is that it looks at hoe catholicism could have influenced Tolkien - what would have had meaning for him, and it perhaps it explains where Tolkien was coming from. (I know so little about where catholicism) I'd have to look at the site more closely - is he openly saying that this IS what influenced Tolkien, or just drawing parallels between Tolkien and his religion?

I think Nienor, that as a protestant christian, these parallels don't have the same meaning as they would for someone who was catholic. I agree with you - they are not the parallels I would draw either.

[Arien Elensar]

The parallels are vague. They could pretain to anyother religion as well but I agree they aren't what I would draw as well.