Silmarillion Simalarities

[Sarawen]

LOTRs bible....lol....I can understand why. Yeah I'm not to far into it. I actually started it once before and I made it to the middle, but after a while, I couldn't remember it so I had to start again. I'm quite familiar with the first part now because I've restarted it so many times. I intend on reading it all the way through but I can't with my masters still going. Hopefully that will end soon though, I'm supposed to be finished within the month.

Speaking of maps.....are all the maps of middle earth the same? I mean...do they change from the first age to the third? I'd love to see how they change...the number of places and names is quite complicated.

Sarawen

[LadyofIthilien]

Yeah I think that the maps change. I mean at the least just the names change.

[°ArieN°]

It's totally hard to read the Sil with other things on your head, but I just love the first chapters, since I'm christian, I saw all the similarities with God's creation. It's cool when people notice it.

[Sarawen]

I am a Christian as well and i totally saw the connections. Its interesting to think that someone else (Tolkien) thought of creation the way that God did. I mean, who else really has contemplated enough to write a story so similiar. The only other thing I've heard of is Paradise Lost by John Milton....and that was about God and Creation.

It is hard to read with other stuff going on though. I'm gonna keep going tho. I'm looking for ways to connect it to Creation n stuff....just because I think its interesting.

Sarawen

[Balrog]

I also think that Ilúvatar is representing God.

In an interview from 1971 he said the One (i.e. Eru Ilúvatar) is God, so you're right.

I wonder what Tolkien thought of as the ending for all of it. I mean, it sounds like Iluvatar had a purpose for them all to return to "heaven." Does anyone know if Tolkien wrote about the ending at all? I'd be neat to see what he thought. Or maybe he didn't write about it because in his Christian faith, the Bible doesn't give a clear picture as to what life will like after this world is over. ....I wonder.

It was abandoned soon after The Lord of the Rings was written, but here is a little bit of what we could expect:

Thus spake the prophecy of Mandos, which he declared in Valmar at the judgement of the Gods, and the rumour of it was whispered among all the Elves of the West: when the world is old and the Powers grow weary, then Morgoth shall come back through the Door out of the Timeless Night; and he shall destroy the Sun and the Moon, but Eärendel shall come upon him as a white flame and drive him from the airs. Then shall the last battle be gathered on the fields of Valinor. In that day Tulkas shall strive with Melko, and on his right hand shall stand Fionwë and on his left Túrin Turambar, son of Húrin, Conqueror of Fate; and it shall be the black sword of Túrin that deals unto Melko his death and final end; and so shall the children of Húrin and all Men be avenged.
Thereafter shall the Silmarils be recovered out of sea and earth and air; for Eärendel shall descend and yield up that flame that he hath had in keeping. Then Fëanor shall bear the Three and yield them unto Yavanna Palúrien; and she will break them and with their fire rekindle the Two Trees, and a great light shall come forth; and the Mountains of Valinor shall be levelled, so that the light goes out over all the world. In that light the Gods will again grow young, and the Elves awake and all their dead arise, and the purpose of Ilúvatar be fulfilled concerning them. But of Men in that day the prophecy speaks not, save of Túrin only, and him it names among the Gods.
Such is the end of the tales of the days before the days in the Northern regions of the Western world.

My quote came from The Shaping of Middle-earth (part four of The History of Middle-earth), page 165.

Sounds like a repetition of the War of Wrath on a greater scale. Pretty d**n cool...

EDIT: Oh, I forgot the following: In the Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth (see Morgoth's Ring), Andreth speaks of the origin of Men. See tells Finrod that Men were immortal once (Garden of Eden-period), till the made a horrible mistake (sin) and Ilúvatar became mad at them. She also speaks of the Great Hope, which says Ilúvatar will come into the world to defeat Morgoth (just as Jesus did with Satan when he died at the cross).

[Sarawen]

That's awesome! It's closer in nature to the Bible than I thought it was.

Sarawen

[Nienor]

Balrog, that's fascinating! As I read The Silmarillion, I did pick up on the many similarities. I'm a believer. That bit about the end of time was interesting...I am going to be thinking about this over the next couple days...

[Tárië Úcenite]

it's great to read about those people and their lands, don't you think...I don't think it's boring, like some here do..Quite interesting as a matter of fact...And because I'm a Christian, I think it's my favourite because it reminds me of the Bible...

[Tulcakelumë Herumaethor]

Just a note - Tolkien did NOT write the Lord of the Rings to be an allegory to anything at all. Nothing. Some allegories may be found, but none were intentional. When he said Eru was "God" he meant that he was the "God" of Arda, not an allegory of the Creator. There are many similarities but it is not a true allegory. That's like saying that when the Greeks said Zeus was "God" that he was the same as the Creator.

[°ArieN°]

I know he always said that, but I wrote somewhere else around here that the books reflected his beliefs, and he probably never had the intention to do that. But that's what so cool about his books, he didn't have to intentionally put Bible stuff, and I know he never wanted to be compared to anything, but it's there.

hahaha, I just read what I wrote, and I hope you understand what I'm saying, sometimes I'm not such a good writer!

[Tulcakelumë Herumaethor]

I wasn't saying that his beliefs didn't come out in his work, I was pretty much just replying to the person who said that Tolkien said Eru was an allegory of the Creator.

[Tárië Úcenite]

But you can't help but notice the simalarities, though it's not to be compared to happenings in the Bible.

[°ArieN°]

Totally agree, two way different things ;D

[ranger of ithilian]

I'm a Chrisitan too and I did notice the similarities. Iluvitar does seem like God and the Valar where like angels.Melkor and the others who went bad were like Satan and his demons when they fell. and the elves and men representing us(The children of God) And the last battle(Dagor Dagoreth) The final battle between good and evil and Morgoth coming back to meet is ultimate end is like after the Millenium when Satan is released to come back after He was thrown into the bottomless pit(at the end of the battle of Armegeddon)-the bottomless pit is like the void-and then meet His end-the lake of fire-I think there really were alot of similarities and probably more that I am missing!
balrog, I never knew that.I haven't been able to read those other books yet but that's really interesting!!

[Evenstar]

Yeah i see your point. I think you are right, because i think that Tolkien based a lot of the LotR on real life things, and people.